Philip Yung interview: “Wong Jing said, ‘It seems too arty!’” | easternkicks.com (2024)

We talk to the director of Where the Wind Blows…

Only writer director Philip Yung‘s fourth film, Where the Wind Blows is by far his most ambitious, recounting a notorious era of police corruption in Hong Kong over several decades, as the screen drips with painstakingly authentic period detail. His other credits include the acclaimed Port of Call, producing box office hitThe Sparring Partner last year, and various screenwriting contributions. If anything unites much of his work, it’s a love of cinema from Hong Kong’s past, but cast with an inventive gaze. His 2013 film May We Chat was explicitly positioned as a 21st-century reboot of Johnny Mak’s Lovely Fifteen;his script for Juno Mak‘s 2013 film Rigor Mortiswas a new take on the popular Jiangshi (or hopping vampire) genre.

Reuniting him with the lead from his acclaimed Port Of Call, Aaron Kwok, and several other members of that films cast, Where the Wind Blows also addsIn The Mood For Love‘s star Tony Leung. Philip was kind enough to respond to my questions about the film in detail.Where the Wind Blows had its UK Premiere as part of Focus Hong Kong in July, and comes to UK cinemas from 29th September, released by Central City Media.

Why did you want to make a film about Lui Lok and Lam Kong and the infamous ‘Four Detectives’ of 1960s and 1970s police corruption in Hong Kong?
This is because many people know about their histories; however, many versions exist. Since we do not have many formal accounts and most unofficial histories are spread by word of mouth, we have a huge room for creativity. I only used those two characters as a prototype, so to a great extent it is created.

For me of course, “Four Detectives” is just a reflection of history. I only used their story to restore the historical scene and the characteristics of that era, which is about wonderful memories including the difficulties and happiness of life in Hong Kong people.

You weren’t even born when the two had fled Hong Kong, and yet the look of the film seems full of authentic detail. Many people who lived through parts of the story you portrayed have told me how much it resonates with what they remember. How much research did you have to do for the film? How important (and difficult) was it to get the look of the film to feel authentic?
We did research for around 6-9 months. The most difficult task is that most people who had experience in that era have passed away. Even those who are still alive, they are old and their memories are vague. Although there are many text references, I prefer to hear stories from people that would be more precious. We have lots of old photos and documentaries for reference, however, need to consider and choose the feasibility of production.

In terms of art, restoring the old era is the most difficult. It is because we need lots of scenes set in China and some places that can recreate Hong Kong. Some scenes cannot be set up but 80% of the shooting scenes in China need to be built or renovated including in the film studio. And they needed significant renovation. We went to several cities and looked at many old buildings for rebuilding and renovating. It was complicated with the renovation and scenery work. I also did research to match the photography and clothing. Mainly in Foshan, Kaiping, Guangzhou Huadu, and Taishan. Also, a few scenes were shot in Hong Kong such as the Legislative Council, Charter Garden, and the old-fashioned Shanghai barber shop in North Point which has now closed. Fortunately, we had time to take pictures of every scene that is a relic from the past.

It was a challenge for the various departments from cinematography and set design to wardrobe and make-up to recreate old Hong Kong. The production was shot for 88 days over three months from November 2017, mostly in China’s Guangdong province, in cities such as Foshan and Kaiping, and with a couple of locations in Hong Kong, including the colonial-style Legislative Council building and an old-school Shanghainese-style barber shop in North Point, which has since closed down.

There’s more than a little of the classic Hong Kong “grey” about these characters that you’d find in the police and crime thrillers of the 80s and 90s, rather than a simple case of black and white, of good and evil. How important was it to make Lui Lok and Lam Kong, if not sympathetic, at least explain some of the reasons for their actions?
To be honest, there are indeed certain restrictions on the expression of evil and it cannot be too notorious, but I will tend to show them the “humanization” in order to cope with different markets. I love to explore the plot of the characters struggling between their likes and dislikes. It is because this story is set in a distant era, so I would choose to write about life expression and love which makes it more like a ‘story’.

Were there any aspects of their story that were problematic to bring to the screen? What do you think their story means for contemporary Hong Kong?
The most challenging part is portraying a big-shot character as an ordinary person. We are not shooting a ‘hero film’. We do not need to create surprises. This is more difficult than all Hong Kong movies of the same kind. It has to be subtle and attractive to the audience. Art and photography are also a huge challenge as they need to recreate the scenes of their lives. For those Hong Kong people who are now lost and in crisis, this “British Colonial’ era film has the significance of recalling the past to understand the future.

In Europe and the US, I think there will be inevitable comparisons to decade-spanning sagas, such as various films by Scorsese, Coppola’s Godfather Trilogy, and Leone’s Once Upon a Time in America. Did you have any films in mind when you came to make the film?
I have watched many movies. Some people watch this film and believe that this is a fan movie. It comes from different references. I have lots of references that are from Cantonese musicals from the 1950s and 1960s. It is hard to say where many individual shots come from as many movies have references. It is because some shots could pay tribute to certain movies, including the scene of a child wearing the top with Once Upon a Time in America when it is raining. Thus, it was also a reference.

Of course, the events have been told many times before in films and TV series in Hong Kong, perhaps most famously in Wong Jing’s heavily fictionalised Lee Rock series. Did that also affect how you approached the film?

I dreamed about being a filmmaker when I was young while watching To Be Number One and Lee Rock. I am thinking about how to do it in the form of art, and what kind of photography to express it. In the era of co-productions, there are many films that focus on the stories of these eras, including kung fu films and police films. I didn’t think about how to be different from others. I think it is natural for me to make a film with my own meaning and aesthetics, and I don’t know what the difference is. I cut a three-minute teaser for Filmart a couple of years ago and showed it to veteran director Wong Jing. His comment was ‘It seems too arty’. Perhaps he was trying to say our treatments were very different although my film features similar characters as his (Wong Jing’s Chasing The Dragon in 2017). What is the meaning of being arty? I film something I like. I am not as executive and capable as many Hong Kong directors. I just do what I want to do with a little clumsiness. Sometimes when I go back to watch the film, I will ask myself “Did I shoot this?” I still remember when I was doing some sound mixings, I watched the movie quietly, as if I was watching a movie made by someone else, and I cannot describe this feeling.

When I interviewed Aaron Kwok about working on Port Of Call, he said how much he enjoyed making the film and how excited to be working with you again. Many of the other cast members came back too. What’s the secret to a happy set? Do you think your approach differs from other directors?
I will give the actors a relatively large space and let them be more flexible. There are many things that would be adjusted and inspired in the scene during shooting. I would not talk about acting skills when I am discussing the script with actors since it is their professionalism. I would discuss the psychology and plot of the characters and I would think of how to express the psychological space of the character in the movie. I will retain some space and process of “exploration”.

Did you always have Aaron in mind for the role of Lui Lok? Unlike Port Of Call, this seems to play into persona as a superstar, not against it. There’s dancing, a Gene Kelly reference, and even one to Michael Jackson if I’m not mistaken?
The first actor to sign up for the project was Aaron Kwok, who had just been named best actor at the Hong Kong Film Awards for his role in Port Of Call, playing a scruffy police officer determined to solve a murder mystery. I made him an ordinary man with a dirty face in Port Of Call but I lookedat his face. He is very handsome, just like the stars in the 1950s to 1960s in Hong Kong, even foreign actors.

Both Gene Kelly and Michael Jackson were mentioned in the studio. I like Gene Kelly because he is my favourite dancer and he belongs to that era, while Aaron Kwok likes Michael Jackson because he has the spiritual attributes of a dancer.

How did you come to cast Tony Leung Chiu-wai for the role of Lam Kong? It feels like there are nods to In The Mood For Love and Infernal Affairs, was that deliberate?
It was a wonderful accident choosing Tony Leung. I lightly mentioned that it would be perfect if Tony Leung played this role after I finished writing the script. I did not take it seriously but everyone around me was very excited when they heard my idea. Even some of them helped contribute to this. So I went to meet with him in Shanghai. He just finished watching Port of Call at that time and wanted to know why I would shoot “Once Upon A Time In Hong Kong”. Actually, Tony Leung was interested in collaborating after we met for the first time in Shanghai. We talked privately for a long time. We talked not only about the movies but also about other topics. Maybe he wanted to know what kind of person I am. He said that this movie made him recall a lot of memories. We both became friends after two months. I think that he trusted me and believed that he could cooperate with me. He decided to postpone his long-planned vacation to take over the filming of this movie. In fact, I used a lot of my own personality of Tony Leung in the role of Lam Kong or even his attitude towards relationships, philosophy, and something he said as dialogue. So I think Lam Kong is a reflection of Tony Leung. I found out lots of interesting and meaningful things from Tony. I think a first-time collaboration should be like that, discover something in him. His temperament fits with the character of Lam Kong very well, that are elegant and thoughtful, but also full of life wisdom and business humour. He has a good contrast with Aaron Kwok, like a hot and cold combination. It also happens to represent the characteristics of two typical Hong Kong ideal personalities.

Both In the Mood for Love and Infernal Affairs are representative works of Tony Leung. Since I said this is a “fan movie”, I have a “tribute” in my heart which is to create some fun from the characters he played for the fans to experience. Also, they can discover some new things from the character from him that it looks familiar but is also real.

Stronger persuasion was needed to convince Tony Leung. I flew to Shanghai to meet him, but it took two months before the actor agreed to push back his long-planned vacation for my project. Tony Leung is like a new friend. He told me a lot about himself, like his relationship with his father and his thoughts on acting. I felt inspired and included some of his personality traits into his character.

You also cast some real Hong Kong legends in the film: Michael Hui and the late Richard Ng. What was it like working with them?
The actors are fully engaged in the performance, especially the four-minute-long English speech of Michael Hui. I was always worried that he would is not able to remember the dialogue but it was a lower-level concern. He completely digested the dialogue into his speech. I shed tears after finishing the whole take. On the one hand, I felt relieved; on the other hand, I really admire and respect him from the heart.

Richard Ng is an important actor in Hong Kong movies. He lived with a low profile. We have always been good friends. He has his own views on movies and acting. He said that people in the old era, apart from in packaging, they also smoked in cans. He brought me an old cigarette can. I think this is his intention which is precious and I cherish it. I really appreciate the time I spent with him.

I have to admit one of my favourite scenes is the confrontation between Lui Lok’s wife Choi Chan and “Limpy Ho” Ng Cheuk-ho’s wife. All wonderfully coded, we see where the power REALLY is. I felt like there was another film trying to break out. Were you tempted to go in that direction instead?
This is one of my favourite scenes. Both actresses performed very well. It is because it is a “group portrait” movie. I do not have many ideas for writing the story between these two women. My imagination is how capable women would be of attitude in the “male-dominated” society at that time. They would probably be more self-conscious than our modern feminists. I prefer to shoot women’s scenes compared to men’s.

There’s so much going on in the film, not just with the plot but the period detail, that I sometimes wanted more time to soak it all in. Do you think we might see a “director’s cut”, or an extended TV version, such as the one the Anita biopic received?
I am currently thinking of making a “director’s cut” which is more than three hours. I think it is inappropriate to make a TV version of episodes. Of course, I prefer that people watch “director’s cut” in the cinema.

I know it took a while for this film to finally be released, you must be working on your next project. Can you tell us about it?
I have done the film “PaPa” with Sean Lau in the first half of the year and just completed the first cut. This will be the movie that represents me in the best way.

Where the Wind Blows had its UK premiere as part of Focus Hong Kong July 2023, and is released in UK cinemas from 29th September by Central City Media. Check the website for the closest screenings to you.

Thanks to Philip Yung, Sophie Wong and Megan Sutcliffe from Central City Media, and Winnie Chan at Mei Ah.